We Start at the End
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I have a confession to make. Even with a self-image as a world-weary cynic, I’m as vulnerable to manipulation as anyone else, especially for stories I grew up with.
The Limits to Growth came out the year I was born. I grew up in the US in the 80s. So we heard a lot of things like this:
So even though I’m late to it, I was delighted to have come across the work of Katy Shields, who presents (and co-produced with Vegard Beyer) a beautifully executed 3-episode audio documentary series about Limits to Growth, which makes its principal author Danella Meadows the main character.
Hearing Katy’s telling of the story of this extraordinary woman who tried to warn us against the future we now inhabit, often in her own words - thanks to an unpublished book outline by Danella to which Katy got exclusive access - made me a bit embarrassed to have previously accepted the bracketing of Limits to Growth in the same category of far more problematic stuff like Malthus, Ehrlich’s The Population Bomb or (the MAGA-right fave) Jean Raspail’s dystopian novel The Camp of the Saints1. Many such works seem not so troubled by population growth per se as much as the hue of the babies being produced.
While I’m not completely convinced by the arguments Meadows made and Katy Shields/Vegard Beyer excavated and made fresh, Katy does have an excellent series of essays where she takes forward the thinking of Meadows et al as a way to investigate how economics was hijacked by the opponents of Limits to Growth.
In this Conversation
00:00 Introduction: Questioning Growth
00:32 Meet the Guest: Katy Shields
02:21 Discovering 'Limits to Growth'
04:38 The Impact of Systems Dynamics
07:30 Critiques and Misunderstandings
09:37 Danella Meadows' Influence
11:23 Uncovering Unpublished Diaries
14:43 Life on Foundation Farm
18:51 Economic Theories and Climate Inaction
19:12 The Abundance vs. Scarcity Debate
20:08 Historical Influence on Modern Economics
21:41 The Chicago School's Dominance
23:26 Challenges in Modern Economic Education
28:54 Donella Meadows' Legacy
31:15 Visioning a Sustainable Future
34:34 Future Directions and Final Thoughts
Abundance Discourse and Its Discontents
At the top of the episode we clip a 1994 speech by Danella Meadows that is an extraordinary few minutes that seem to foreshadow the ‘abundance discourse’ currently all the rage on the centre-left.
Which is not actually to shame those who, I believe in good faith, believe that ‘perpetual growth’ is the only potential solution to the challenges of the mid-21st century. But I do wish the very animated actors on all sides of that ‘abundance’ debate would take a few minutes to appreciate how accurately Meadows anticipated the strengths and flaws of all the aspects of that debate:
All the Outros
We were curious how others felt our choice of outros was landing. Here’s one response:
“…warped, cynical, even a little unhinged. It’s the playlist equivalent of staring into the void and grinning a little as it stares back into you. It complements the show’s tone—sharp, ironic, and with an edge—while making space for that little smile of shared madness.
The outro selections feel like an attempt to sublimate existential dread—with sparkles of defiance and humour. Theatrically intentional: irony, reflection, global texture, and just the right amount of diseased delight.”
Normally I provide links to buy the books by authors we mention. These two are the exception. Both basically are an early mid iteration of the Great Replacement Theory (and all its forebears too many to mention). So fuck them.
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